Hannah: Well, thanks for joining us today, Kayla.
Kayla: Thanks for having me.
Hannah: You have such an interesting and cool career path of really from the beginning to end and I can’t wait to dive into that. But before we get into there, how did you find financial planning? How did you get into this profession?
Kayla: It actually started in the eighth grade, which is when I knew I wanted to work in finance, which is funny because I don’t think a lot of eighth graders realize that. And it really happened because I took a trip to New York in the eighth grade to see family members. I’m from Minnesota originally born and raised. And once I was there I talked to my cousin who lived in New York and he told me about his job and how he loved it and how he got to take clients out all the time. He worked in finance and he actually worked for Charles Schwab, which at the time as an eighth grader, I had no idea what that was, but it sounded cool. And then funny enough, later on, I ended up working at Pershing for eight years. So it’s just funny how things happen. And it really shows how impressionable you are at a young age.
Kayla: I think a lot of people choose a career early because of what they’ve been surrounded with. And so for me, honestly a lot of it was family influence. Then I’d say the second reason was I knew that there are a lot of different options in the profession, but I didn’t really know what I wanted to do.
Hannah: Did you go to school for finance? Was that your path?
Kayla: So yeah, so I went to Iona College in New Rochelle, New York. I studied finance and like I said, the reason was one, I was exposed to it at an early age. And then two, I knew if I wanted to stay in New York once I graduated, that I’d have to make a decent living for myself. I fully funded my own college, which I’m still paying for today because my mom said if you want to go to school outside of Minnesota, you have to pay for it. And without even blinking, I said okay, where’s the bank? I need to get a loan.
Kayla: So I studied finance and then did a lot of internships in college as well because I didn’t know exactly what I wanted to do within the profession.
Hannah: And tell me about those internships because you had more than one, right?
Kayla: Yes. I had four because I was a psycho. My first internship was my freshman year in college. I worked at New York Life as a life insurance agent. So that was interesting. I learned a lot. I learned about sales. I realized it probably wasn’t the right career path for me. I also worked at UBS twice. I had two internships there. Then I worked at JP Morgan for a breakaway team that recently broke away and started their own RIA. So that’s really how I was exposed early on for that.
Hannah: You already mentioned that you got a job at Pershing. Was that your first job, like once you graduated was at Pershing?
Kayla: Yes. That was my first job. Even though I had multiple roles within Pershing and I was there for eight years before joining Facet Wealth, which is atypical for a millennial. I mean millennials rotate through jobs many different times. But that was my first job out of college and up until Facet Wealth, that was my only job.
Hannah: So tell me more about what your experience was like, especially when you first got to Pershing.
Kayla: Yeah, so when I joined Pershing I was accepted into a rotational program, which was basically year long rotation program where I got to rotate through almost every department, including the cafeteria. We had a day where we had to go to the cafeteria. And that program was great because it really gave me a view into all the different types of roles within a custodian. And eventually I placed out on the hedge fund side of the business and worked there for about five years. And that was great because I got to see, kind of start with the complex business in terms of what I was learning.
Hannah: So for our listeners, can you tell me like what does Pershing do?
Kayla: As a custodian, I mean their primary role, they do a lot of different things but it’s safekeeping of money. So that’s basically to ensure that there’s no Bernie Madoff scandals. They’re really the ones who are holding the money safe and then offering more of the back office services for hedge funds, broker dealers and RIAs.
Hannah: So you’re at Pershing for eight years and for the first year you were in the rotational program. The next four years you were in the hedge fund program. And then did you transfer to a different program?
Kayla: Eventually I moved over to the RIA side of the business, so working with independent fee only RIAs who were either starting their own independent business or looking for a new custodian for their clients. And so I was introduced to that side of the business really through Mark Diversion, who was our Pershing advisor solutions CEO. I was really interested in what was going on in the industry. There’s a lot of trends towards, as many of the listeners know, from commission based business to fee only business. And I was just really intrigued with that side of the business. And part of me wanted to see more of an impact on the end client.
Kayla: I loved working on the hedge fund side but at the end of the day just being blunt, I felt that I was helping wealthy people make more money. And so that’s why I wanted to something different and that’s why I moved over to the RIA side.
Hannah: I’m lucky enough to know more of your story and know more about you. So I get a kind of an edge on this question, but you’re one of the types who sees a problem and then really is a self-starter and goes at it. And so I would love for you to talk about kind of the problem that you were seeing at Pershing, or forget Pershing, across the whole profession about millennials and what program you started right there.
Kayla: I will say the cornerstone of my career to date other than joining Facet Wealth, and I will always look back and be extremely grateful to have had this opportunity, was launching a millennial reverse mentoring program at Pershing. So millennials mentoring senior executives. It really started because, actually what prompted it was when I was working on the hedge fund side of the business, Gerry Tamburro, who ran that side, he was a very innovative thinker. He was very forward thinking. And he sat on the executive committee at Pershing and looked around the room and realized that those executives didn’t necessarily represent the future in terms of just diversity.
Kayla: And at the time, I think this was in 2013, the statistic was that 50% of the workforce will be composed of millennials by 2020, which I can’t believe that’s already next year. And it seems true. So what he did is he tapped on myself and my colleague Jamie Lynn, who at the time I sent, it’s funny, I sent him a week before an article about millennials, which was pretty ballsy of me because I didn’t interact with him a lot. But I just, I really liked the article and I thought he’d like it from a leadership standpoint. And it’s funny that an article really provoked him to tap on me to start a program at Pershing.
Kayla: And so he basically sat with Jamie Lynn and I and said, look, here’s the challenge that needs to be solved, which I agreed and I was newer to the company but I could already see it. And he said let’s do something about it. I’ll back you and you guys help me execute. And so we did a lot of research. We looked at different programs out there for talent retention strategies and came across reverse mentoring, which Jack Welsh actually started that back at GE. But it was more around technology. And we thought there’s about 20% of the firm at the time was made of millennials. This sounds like a great program to do.
Kayla: So the mission, and we set a vision statement, and that was to leverage millennial talent at the firm to create the firm that they want to work for in the future. So instead of looking five years down the road to see how the firm might need a different perspective, let’s change it now. And so we created a business plan. It was kind of like launching a business. We created a business plan, we got the okay from the CEO, we presented to the CEO and COO of the company and started a beta program of nine people. And now today, I mean since, the program is still going on. There have been, I think probably way more since I left, but over I think 150 millennials rotated through the program. I think 100 senior executives. So it was amazing to see what actually happened when you open up the lines of communications to offer a different perspective. So that was, I mean that was a really fun part of my career.
Hannah: So let me back up. So you’re like not that far, I mean you’re like, what, 26, 27 at this point? And they’re asking you to like build out a program for the senior executives of Pershing. I mean that’s kind of a big deal.
Kayla: Yeah, it was a big deal and I did not take the opportunity lightly. I saw this as an opportunity to actually execute on something when you have senior level support, which is rare in itself, and that shows just how great the senior leadership was. So that would be my advice to anyone who has an opportunity to truly make a difference in their firm. Just go for it and execute it and do what you say you’re going to do. But it was an incredible experience.
Hannah: So number one, I’m just wowed that you did this, that you helped create this program. But you are also one of the millennials who is doing the reverse mentoring with a senior executive. Can you talk about like what that experience was? I mean, I can only imagine.
Kayla: So yeah. So I was lucky enough to be paired, and I didn’t do the pairing, but if I did, I probably would’ve done the same thing. But I was lucky enough to be paired with Mark Diversion, who is an industry leader in our industry. He’s very well known. So I was his mentor and it just honestly changed my career trajectory, meeting him and learning from him and having the opportunity to sit down in front of a senior executive and actually be listened to. It was difficult, but it was incredible. And we have a great relationship. I’ve learned so much from him and I think vice versa.
Hannah: Okay, so I can get how he was influencing you, but I’m curious, what would you say that you were, how you were influencing him?
Kayla: What I did in our first meeting was I came prepared with different topics that I wanted him organize to tell me what he wants to get out of the relationship. Because as part of the structure of reverse mentoring, you really need to have goals that are set in the beginning, even though we want it to be a natural conversation. And so for him, what was most important to him was one just understanding the millennial generation from a way that he can retain and attract talent. Two, I’d say social media was part of it. I helped him with LinkedIn and Twitter and stuff like that. But it wasn’t totally a big piece of it.
Kayla: But I think for him it was just getting rid of all the layers because when you’re in that position you probably get yes’d to death all the time. And to have an opportunity to hear from, I hate calling it this, but it was it, the ground of what’s going on and getting rid of all those layers. I think for him that was really impactful. He used to, for example, he writes for Think Advisor and he used to send me his articles before he published them saying, hey, how does this resonate from a younger generation? That in itself was really powerful because first he’s actually listening and he’s being open to different and new ideas. And that was just one of the examples.
Hannah: So one of the other things that I know that you’re passionate about, and I know you did some work at Pershing with Mark, was on financial literacy. Can you tell me more about that?
Kayla: Yeah, so that’s something I’m extremely passionate about and has led into my new career at Facet Wealth. Mark and I, during our meetings when we’re talking, we talked a lot about the importance of financial literacy and how there’s such a gap in financial literacy right now. And the one of the biggest gaps is actually in the school system. And myself included, I didn’t know anything about my own personal finances. Same with my mom. She never had access to that. And so it’s something that I’m really passionate about and I think that it’s our duty as whether you’re a financial advisor or in the profession to give back.
Kayla: And so Mark and I talked a lot about what he did with his high school back in Gladstone, Michigan, where he basically went and personally funded a personal finance course at his high school. So he found a teacher, he donated the money for the materials and to train the teacher. And it’s been this amazing success where even one of the students who participated in the program, she’s now becoming a financial advisor. She came to the Investment News Woman to Watch Award and spoke.
Kayla: And so this was really a big topic in conversation. So out of that he wanted a way to take what he’s done and amplify it to inspire other advisors to do the same. So I took his idea and his backing and got a group together and we started an adopt a school program, which basically where we created materials and helped advisors adopt their own school modeling after what Mark did. So that in itself came from reverse mentoring. And it’s something I’m really passionate about today at Facet Wealth. We do a lot around that. I, last week actually taught financial literacy to recently incarcerated women who are reentering the workforce through a program called Pivot. So that was really cool.
Kayla: So yeah, it’s a, it’s a big passion of mine and it’s something that I think our industry needs to give back.
Hannah: I’m just curious, how much does it cost to adopt the school?
Kayla: There’s a lot of really great resources out there, like EVERFI for example. EVERFI is a program that we even use at Facet Wealth where we adopted a school in Baltimore and that was I think $5,000 and that included training of the teacher, the curriculum, and it was more tacked onto economics course rather than a standalone course. So every school is different. I mean, what I found is each state is totally different too.
Hannah: You’re just doing something about it. I really admire that I kind of with multiple points along your career path.
Kayla: No, thank you. I think what I’ve learned in my career is exactly to that point, where there’s a lot of people who have great ideas, but there’s not a lot of people who can actually execute on that. I had a mentor once tell me early on, and a lot of people say this, if you say you’re going to do something, do it. I think I’ve been fortunate enough to have a ton of support from senior levels for me to execute on certain things like reverse mentoring, like doing a lot around financial literacy. But that would be my advice to those who are just starting out. Make your name known as someone who can execute on something. And if you’re passionate about it then just do it.
Hannah: Even, you talked about adopting schools, $5,000 just feels like a lot of money, especially when you’re starting out. But if you look at that over maybe five years or 10 years and make that a 10 year goal of yours to be able to adopt a school in 10 years and start saving for that. I don’t know, I think there’s so many cool ways that we can really take action.
Kayla: Absolutely. And it doesn’t have to be monetary. I think even teaching a course, like I said, I did that program last week, that took two hours out of my day and I saw, I mean I left there like wow. I made an impact and it only took two hours and it didn’t cost me anything. So I think there’s a lot of things that you can do, whether it’s doing pro bono planning, whether it’s teaching at a school, whether it’s donating your money, but there’s a lot of different ways to give back and it just takes a small step. And so that’s something that I’m really passionate about.
Hannah: So you have this great career at Pershing and everything seems to be going really, really well in your career. We know that you’re at Facet Wealth right now. So tell me, how were you introduced to Facet and what did that transition look like for you?
Kayla: Yeah. So I was introduced too Facet Wealth a while ago. I met Anders Jones who’s the CEO and Brent Weiss, who’s the co-founder at an event a year before they even launched the firm. I heard about what they were building and I’ll be honest, I could not stop thinking about it and that’s why I kept in touch just to see once the launch happened, how it was going. And what resonated with me the most was that they’re trying to solve this massive challenge that I knew existed, that I think our whole industry knows exists and that is serving an underserved market by leading with financial planning.
Kayla: And so that’s really what intrigued me about Facet Wealth is Facet exists to offer holistic financial planning to the mass affluent with a dedicated CFP. So not replacing the advisor, but really enabling the advisor. And so I was just intrigued with the mission of what they’re trying to do. I think it’s a business model that we need in our industry. There’s a lot of firms that are seeking the same thing, but I think there needs to be more of them.
Kayla: So I was very intrigued with the mission and it’s something that I’m also passionate about because myself, my mom, my dad are those who haven’t really had access to financial planning just because they feel that they can’t afford it. And so there aren’t a lot of good options. And that could have probably changed some of the trajectory that I experienced just from a financial standpoint.
Hannah: So you had this great career at Pershing and then you transitioned over to Facet Wealth. Tell me more about that transition.
Kayla: Yeah, so I’ll be honest, I was so incredibly excited about the new opportunity, but it was one of the toughest decisions that I’ve had to make. And that is because of all the relationships that I formed at Pershing for the eight years that I was there. I mean I was leaving a firm that I felt that I grew up there. I felt like I had family there. I had a ton of support, amazing relationship with a lot of senior leaders like Mark. But Mark once said to me run to something and not away from something. And that is what I did.
Kayla: I mean, I ran towards an opportunity to help build a company, have a mission that I felt passionate about, that I thought I could have a bigger impact than maybe than where I was. And it was a time in my life were it made sense to take that risk because I don’t have kids yet. That’s a big portion of it.
Kayla: And so, yeah, at the end of the day it was really difficult. I had to put my big girl pants on and just do what I knew in my heart was the best decision. So my advice for people looking to do a big career change is that if there’s something you’re truly passionate about, whether it’s starting your own business, whether it’s trying a whole different career path, something, do it now, listen to your inner voice. Nothing is the end of the world if you take the risk.
Kayla: But yeah, I haven’t looked back. I of course miss all the people and what I was doing, but this opportunity’s just incredible and I’m proud of myself for taking notice of it because I wasn’t looking before I even came across Facet Wealth.
Hannah: I love what you said about you couldn’t stop thinking about their mission.
Kayla: Yeah. It was kind of crazy. I mean, I kept in contact for years before actually making the transition. I think part of that was you can’t be too naive where you just oh, you have a passion and you got to go live your passion and go for it. Because there’s a lot of other aspects in there that you have to think about, like the support of the management of the company, is there funding of the company and everything just lined up. I mean, the Facet Wealth has an amazing management team and received a significant amount of funding to actually focus on growing the business. And so everything just kind of came into place.
Hannah: So you’re talking about Facet Wealth really wants to go help serve these underserved or not being served right now through financial planning. What does the business model around that? Like how are they actually doing that?
Kayla: We have a laser focus on offering holistic financial planning to clients who have less than a million dollars. So that’s our target market. And it’s delivered via a dedicated CFP. So each client has a dedicated CFP, it’s not a call center. It’s a virtual delivery which allows us to scale the business model. So each client is meeting through Zoom video conference with their advisor. And what else is really unique is the pricing model.
Kayla: So Facet has a subscription based pricing, which as you know there’s some firms that are moving towards that. And what I love about the model is that the client pays for what they need. So the cost ranges from a $480 up to $5,000 a year. And the client basically comes in and says okay, I need cashflow planning, I need 401k planning and investment management. Then they’re put into a pricing structure where they know exactly what they’re paying for. So it’s a really unique model to basically give access to this market who hasn’t typically had access in the past.
Hannah: And so how are you accessing those clients? I mean, are you guys doing like mass marketing to consumers or what does that looking like?
Kayla: What’s interesting about the Facet Wealth model is Facet doesn’t do any direct to consumer outreach. Instead, we actually partner with advisors to help them build and maintain healthy practices. And we do that by acting as a home for clients. That advisor might have a book and there might be a subsection of legacy clients that they’ve taken on over the years that just aren’t a good fit for their business or might not be profitable. And maybe the advisor is moving upstream. And Facet’s built a model to serve those clients. And so we also partner with advisors to basically take on those clients that might not be a good fit because we’ve built a whole business model around serving them. And then the advisor can focus on building the right business with the client that they serve the best.
Kayla: And so that’s one of the ways that Facet works with advisors. And I found that really interesting, especially when I was at Pershing because in my role I got to see inside a lot of different RIAs and work with a lot of business owners and how they run the business and realize that there’s a lot of capacity challenges and profitability challenges in serving clients who might have less than $500,000. And it’s not because advisors don’t necessarily want to service them. For example, I had a call with an advisor the other day who said these are my favorite clients to service because I can see such an impact, but it’s hard to do so because they’re just not profitable.
Kayla: And so that’s what I love about the business model is we partner with the advisory committee community to be that small account solution or we also act as a referral partner for any advisors who might have to turn away someone who has $200,000 because it just doesn’t make sense to take them on when our business is made for them. So we hope to be that fiduciary home for those types of clients.
Hannah: That’s so cool. I’m just remembering back back in the day when I was working at the broker dealer. They called them orphan clients. I thought that was such a terrible name for them. But those are really the people that you guys really excel at working with. Do you guys have any minimum?
Kayla: We don’t. We want clients who can see the value in what we’re offering in the planning. And so typically, we don’t have any minimums. I mean, a lot of our clients don’t even, they don’t necessarily do investment management with us. Some just use us for planning, but we’ll take clients who need the help.
Hannah: Well, and you had said that like your minimum, the fee was like $480.
Kayla: Yeah. So our minimum fee is $480 a year. We have a maximum fee of $5,000. And so we don’t necessarily, I mean of course we care about assets but we don’t because of just how the subscription pricing model is.
Hannah: Are you guys seeing traction with this? Like your advisors getting bored with this idea?
Kayla: Yes. So when I, well, first just from a company’s standpoint, when I joined Facet Wealth, I was I think employee 25 and we’re up to about 55 employees. That’s just in the past five, six months since I joined. And so we’re seeing a ton of traction. I’ve worked with a lot of advisors who have transitioned clients that just didn’t make sense for their business and we’ve taken great care of them and the advisor is focused on growing their business and it’s been a win win.
Kayla: I think one of, it’s interesting, our advisor model is interesting and just the actual structure, which is another aspect that I found really interesting about Facet Wealth. What I mean by that is our advisors don’t have to go and do any business development to bring in clients because of how we work with other advisors to bring in clients. So we hire advisors who just love servicing the clients. And even from a compensation standpoint, they’re compensated salary plus bonus and bonus is based off of client retention and net promoters score.
Kayla: So obviously everyone, hopefully everyone, got into this business because they want to help people and take care of their clients. And so this is just an example of how the industry is changing. And our net promoter score right now is at, I think it’s at 79 when we last checked. We get updates every once in awhile. And the industry average I think is 35. So it just shows that we’re taking great care of the clients. And so that’s something that I love about this business model.
Hannah: And what is the net promoter score?
Kayla: So net promoter score is basically a survey that’s sent out in terms of if they would highly recommend their advisor to someone else.
Hannah: For clients of Facet Wealth, you’re talking about how you lead with financial planning, what does that look like from a client experience standpoint?
Kayla: So I’ll talk about the experience from my point of view because I have a financial planner through Facet Wealth. And what I love about this firm is that everyone in the firm is a client. So everyone at Facet Wealth, as part of our employee benefits we get free financial planning. So my planner is Holly, she’s amazing. Basically from a client experience standpoint, it’s a virtual delivery. So we meet via Zoom video conference. It’s great because my husband and I, we meet with her and we’ll meet separately, he’ll from work and we’ll just dial in through the Zoom video conference, which is great. And she runs through our financial plan with us.
Kayla: And basically in the beginning of the conversation we talk through what our financial goals were. And so mine is paying off student loan debt, saving for a house. I want to start doing more investments, investment management, and she’s helping me roll over my 401k. I mean, it just runs the gamut. And so from there we mapped out the different planning sessions, especially in the beginning as everyone probably knows, it takes a lot more meetings in the beginning to get organized. And so we had, I think we’re on our fourth planning session and each session focuses on something different. So our next session is focusing on our 401k and she’s helping just with the investment piece and doing the rollover.
Kayla: Then from there, once we get fully organized with our goals, then we’ll have sequential meetings based on when we need to meet with her. And so that’s really the experience. I mean, it’s high quality, holistic financial planning, which is something to be honest, I never thought I could afford. I am that target market that we’re going after. And so it’s a great experience. And from a technology standpoint, well, another thing that’s interesting about the company is Facet Wealth has built their own, we’ve built our own financial planning software. So we have engineers on staff who have basically taken financial planning and simplified it and built our own financial planning software. So it’s very transparent, easy to use, and it’s a great experience.
Hannah: So from an advisor or planner standpoint, are planners capped at how many clients I can work with or what does that look like from the planner’s perspective?
Kayla: So from a planner’s perspective, and this is all about, so the name of the game for us is all about advisor efficiency. So how do we take technology and not, like I said, not to replace the advisor, but really to help them make their job easier so that they can serve more clients and still give them really high quality? And so to answer your question, so right now our advisors can serve up to 350 clients per advisor, but then as we improve the technology, then that’s going to increase. SO basically we’ve taken anything manual that can be automated through the planning software and we’ve done that so that the planner can spend virtually all of their time in front of the client instead of doing all the minutia in the background of actually creating the financial plans.
Hannah: So I love this model with Facet Wealth and what you’re doing and really leveraging technology to do financial planning and in person financial planning. And a lot of what you’re saying, it’s reminding me of like Learn Vest or something like that. How are you different from like that Learn Vest model?
Kayla: What they’ve built is great, but I think for us, we focus 110% on the planning aspect and a leading with humans. So I think for Learn Vest it was more focused on the technology component of it, which of course is important, but we really lead with planning and lead with that dedicated CFP. So I think that’s a big difference. And really for Facet Wealth, we’re trying to take the experience that someone gets when they have $2 million, which is a great client for a lot of advisors and make that available for someone that has $200,000. And by using our own internal technology to make that available.
Kayla: So our average client right now is surprisingly 50 to 55 with $350,000 in assets and being charged $1,600 a year, which is a significant discount to the average of the 1%. And so we do really well with those who are retiring or retired, who still have a lot of need for financial planning and who are primarily difficult to service at that stage for a typical advisor. And then yes, we also have a lot of millennials who are just starting out who need help, but just don’t have either the assets or the income yet to afford it. And so we do really well with those types of clients.
Kayla: I’ll give an example. I think five of my friends are now clients of Facet Wealth, maybe because I’ve worked on them for a while. But one in particular, so one of my really good friends, she always said that she needed help but she didn’t necessarily see the value in it. She just thought that she could do it herself. I told her about what we were doing and said hey, it might make sense to at least talk to one of our advisors because I think she could really help you. Eventually she signed up as a client and I just got a text from her the other day that said like unprompted Kayla, thank you for introducing me to Facet Wealth because, she’s like, I didn’t even know that I needed someone to help me. But she’s helping her, similar to me, pay down debt and save for a house. It’s incredible to actually see that first hand.
Kayla: To your point someone who’s just starting out their career, who really needs the help, there’s not a lot of firms out there that can do that other than say a robo advisor who, which I don’t think, that’s great for cheap asset allocation, but when you have planning questions, that model kind of breaks down.
Hannah: I know I said at the beginning of this episode one of the things that’s just so cool about hearing your story is how you really took initiative and you’ve really set apart yourself apart from other new planners in just how you’ve approached your career and things like that. So I’m curious, what would be your advice for new planners as they kind of enter this profession who want to have an impact?
Kayla: For those who enter this profession who want to have an impact, I would honestly say take risks. I took a risk and in joining Facet Wealth and it was a really difficult decision. I had a great career that I developed at Pershing, but I just, I had this passion for what the firm was doing and I wanted to be part of it to potentially impact thousands of lives. And so it took a lot for me to take that risk and I’m so happy that I did it. So I would say take risks.
Kayla: And then the second thing I would say is lead from where you are. I heard that once from a mentor and it always stuck with me, where it doesn’t matter what role you’re in. I mean, it doesn’t matter if you’re working in the mail room or if you’re a lead advisor somewhere, I think can always lead from where you are to get to that next level. But I would, yeah, take the risk. I mean, life’s too short not too. If it’s something that you’re passionate about, just do it. I know that’s easier said than said than done.
Hannah: You say lead from where you’re at. I need you to break that down for me. Like what do you mean? Tell me more about what you mean by that.
Kayla: You don’t have to ask for permission to lead. If you’re someone who is a naturally born leader and you want to develop those qualities, I would say just do the right thing and set the example and eventually you’ll find that people will follow.